Interview with Gianni Bruna,
an Italian nuclear professional in France

Doctor in Applied Nuclear Physics from the University of Genoa, Giovanni Bruna began his career 45 years ago at Ansaldo Nucleare, where he participated in the design of the Superphénix fast neutron reactor, and later joined Framatome where he worked on various aspects of reactor design and analysis (neutronics, control, operation and safety, development and qualification of calculation codes, research and development programs, experiments on scale models). As a senior expert at AREVA since 1990, Giovanni contributed to the design of fourth-generation reactors (GEN-IV) such as high-temperature reactors and served as coordinator of the European project RAPHAEL. Hired in 2005 at IRSN as deputy director for reactor safety, he later became scientific director responsible for European and international partnerships. Very active in European research, Giovanni is one of the founders of NEUGENIA and is a member of the scientific council of several research organizations (including the Nuclear Energy Directorate of the CEA, NINE Engineering). Since 2019, Giovanni has been a Partner-Expert at NucADVISOR. He is the author of 150 scientific publications.

1. I believe that nowadays those who enroll in physics courses do so with the intention of orienting themselves towards research and/or teaching and are mainly interested in fundamental physics. Perhaps it is considered that the application of physics to the development of machines and devices is mostly the prerogative of engineers. Of course, this is a simplification; the reality is that there is a vast middle ground populated by physicists who are excellent engineers, and vice versa, engineers who are excellent physicists. When did you decide to enroll in physics courses in Genoa, and what motivated you? What kind of students enrolled in physics back then? Among the enthusiasts of the discipline, were there those who aspired to exploit it for technological innovation, industry, rather than the development of theories? Did the proximity to Ansaldo have an influence on the type of people you could encounter in the faculty corridors?

To tell the truth, like most students who enrolled in the physics faculty in the early seventies, my vocation stemmed from the desire to delve into the mysteries of knowledge by experiencing a multidisciplinary and critical approach. Already in high school, under the joint guidance of my excellent philosophy and physics teachers, I became passionate about epistemology and devoured the texts of Karl Popper and Bertrand Russell... Then, on the suggestion of Prof. Enrico Beltrametti, professor of Nuclear Forces Theory and later my thesis advisor and future Rector of the University of Genoa, I began to take an interest in applied nuclear physics, a subject I included in the optional part of my study plan by attending a couple of courses in Engineering. My interest in the subject grew exponentially, to the extent that I decided to dedicate my thesis - jointly coordinated by the Faculty of Physics of the University of Genoa and NIRA (then a branch of Ansaldo) - to the project of the self-fertilizing fast reactor Superphenix. The topic of the thesis, which focused on the development of the GPT (Generalized Perturbation Theory) methodology and its application to reactor core design, allowed me to bring together the realms of formalism and practical application, under the esteemed mentorship of Professor Augusto Gandini from ENEA. Hired at NIRA immediately after graduation, I had the immense privilege of getting started operationally in neutron physics and reactor physics under the watchful and complicit supervision of the late Prof. John Kallfelz of GIT (Georgia Institute of Technology), future editor of the prestigious journal Nuclear Science and Engineering, then a visiting professor in Italy. Then came the time for collaboration with CEA, a prelude to my detachment, in 1978, at the French branch of NIRA to participate in the preparatory studies for the Superphenix divergence and the design of the EFR (European Fast Reactor), prototype of what was supposed to become the European sodium fast reactor line. After transitioning to Framatome, and later AREVA, in the early 1980s, I have since 2005 continued my professional journey at IRSN, where I have applied the knowledge acquired through many years of industrial experience to enhance nuclear safety.In summary, I would say that the "engineering" orientation of my career stemmed from the fruitful conjunction of personal factors (Undoubtedly, the interest, I would almost say the imperative, to find a practical application for theory.), spatial and temporal contingencies (at the end of the 1970s Italy was just joining the European consortium for the construction of Superphenix, and Ansaldo, through NIRA, was its manager), and the teaching of those whom I am honored to consider my mentors.

2. I have the impression, naturally based on my experience and that of many colleagues, that Italian engineers, physicists, chemists, etc., who end up in France working in the nuclear industry or research are are often perceived as migrants seeking opportunities, having left their homeland with degrees and a certain quaint enthusiasm and optimism, which stereotypes often attribute to us.. Migrants who, after making the unfortunate choice of studying useless disciplines in Italy, end up chasing job opportunities in France. I have known many engineers and physicists, besides myself, who have studied nuclear sciences out of genuine passion, fully aware that in Italy, opportunities outside of nuclear physics research were scarce, and thus, were prepared to work abroad, even aspiring to it.. I believe that before the end of the Italian nuclear program, Italian nuclear engineers or physicists who arrived in France were seen in a completely different light. What was it like arriving in France? How were you received from a professional standpoint?

I cannot give an assessment of the present. I can, however, speak about the past, based on lived experience. The current context has changed a lot since, in the second half of the 1970s, me and other colleagues from NIRA, ENEA, and ENEL moved to France to participate in the Superphenix adventure, assuming roles of responsibility in design and research & development. In those years, we were not at all "job-seeking migrants". All Italian physicists and engineers of my generation started their French experience within structured international partnerships and collaborations that created conditions of equal and mutually beneficial exchanges with French colleagues. Later on, many Italian university students (physicists and/or engineers) began their work experience in France (also quite well paid) as part of their master thesis; which paved the way for their possible future integration into the French industry or research field. In my long career, first at Framatome and AREVA, then at IRSN, I welcomed many students from various Italian institutions, primarily, the Polytechnic University of Turin and the Polytechnic University of Milan, but also the Universities of Genoa, Rome, Bologna, Pisa... Many of them were hired by French Industries or Organizations, such as Framatome, AREVA, IRSN, CEA, EDF, while others ventured towards brilliant international horizons, such as the IAEA, SCK-CEN in Belgium, PSI in Zurich... And I must say they all had successful careers, demonstrating not only their undeniable personal skills but also the high quality of Italian teaching in nuclear physics and engineering, much appreciated in France and worldwide at that time. Then came the dark times of lack of interest, I would say generalized hostility, towards nuclear power in Italy with the consequences that everyone knows. I am not surprised that this fact may have had and still has repercussions on the conditions of integration of compatriots wishing to work in the sector in the French context. Unfortunately, although I hope for a revival of interest in nuclear physics and technology in our country, I fear it is far too late to make up for lost time.

3. In Italy, the nuclear program no longer exists, but the culture and experience have somehow remained. I believe people don't ask "why" often enough. In your opinion, why have skills of this level been maintained? In a nation that, unlike France, has limited self-regard and forward-thinking that could now prove valuable? How much do you think this is due to genuine passion - of those who teach and those who study - and how much do you think is the result of a strategy?

Frankly, I don't think it's a strategy, and of course, I regret it. Referring to my personal experience, I would say that the faint survivals of attention to our sector in Italy are often the expression of personal conjunctural interests that can lead to important careers, even internationally, or, on the contrary, and I echo the terms of the question, "to the survival of a professional and cultural niche" cultivated with painstaking love by some nostalgics, who still "believe in it" and strive with commitment and selflessness in an extremely unfavorable context, where sensationalist proclamations are valued more than thorough analysis. I know highly deserving Italian individuals and companies that, against all odds, strive to achieve significant successes in the nuclear sector. In the context of my current activity as a partner-expert at NucAdvisor, I occasionally have the pleasure of working with them and I wish to acknowledge their efforts. I can only hope that their endeavors continue, yield results, and grow.