Interview with Flavio De Magistris, an Italian nuclear professional in France

SPIN Associate, engineer, and central figure for the Italian community in Cadarache and Provence, Flavio has dedicated part of his free time to the establishment of an inclusive community of Italian nuclear professionals.

1. Flavio, you left Italy for France before the 1987 referendum, when the Italian nuclear program still existed and, with it, the opportunities to work in a field that, seen with the eyes of that time, offered promises of expansion. What were you pursuing (or fleeing) professionally?

Like almost everyone, my career choices were not the result of reasoning based solely on the prospects of the nuclear industry in Italy and France and the different opportunities they offered. Instead, they were the consequence of a series of opportunities, circumstances, and personal choices. My career began in '79; I graduated in mechanical engineering with a focus on energy domain. My first two job offers came from a pump manufacturer in Milan and Nucleare Italiana Reattori Avanzati (NIRA), based in Genoa. NIRA was involved in the Superphénix project. Since my university studies, I had developed a certain interest in nuclear energy, and so I chose to go to NIRA. Shortly after my hiring, I was unexpectedly offered the opportunity to spend some time in Cadarache to replace a colleague at a research center for the Superphénix project. I accepted, as the project and the professional prospects could only attract my interest; besides, I had no particular ties to Genoa, which is not my hometown. A few years later, in 1983, NIRA offered me the opportunity to return to Italy to work on the Prova Elementi Combustibile (PEC) reactor in Brasimone, but I decided to resign from NIRA and stay in Provence, where I had settled. At the time, I greatly appreciated how French people were able to recognize and reward quality work and achieved results. Beyond my work, I also appreciated the quality of life in Provence, the climate, the environment, the beauty of the region, and the quality of services guaranteed by the French state, far superior to what I had known in Italy. I then started working at CISI (Compagnie Internationale de Services Informatiques, a subsidiary of CEA), where I handled mechanical sizing calculations for a wide variety of companies in the region, including the French Navy. I decided to take French nationality and later was hired by Technicatome (another CEA subsidiary). In 1996, I moved from Technicatome to CEA, where I was first responsible for a laboratory, then for the nuclear technology service, and later for the nuclear measurements and probability service. I then temporarily interrupted my career at CEA to serve at the Ministry of Research, where I followed the funding allocated to research institutions in the region on behalf of the Government. Finally, I returned to CEA to handle relations with local authorities.

2. In France, the need to renew the nuclear fleet is reactivating an industrial fabric slowed down by the last few decades characterized by serious hesitations regarding the future of national energy policy. On the other hand, globally, the climate emergency is giving a push to nuclear energy, which seems to be making its way even in environmentalist discourse, weakening old anti-nuclear positions. In short, it seems we are facing a new “nuclear renaissance.” Italy, however, seems unable to take a clear position: it is invited to the Nuclear Alliance launched by Minister Agnès Pannier-Runacher but is not an official member, and some of its industries sign collaboration agreements with major foreign groups (e.g., Ansaldo Nucleare with EDF) which are evidently very cautious about the prospect of building in Italy. On the political level, there is a lot of confusion and there are no significant attempts to build a shared and technically credible position, i.e., to meet the minimum requirements for developing a nuclear program. What do you think about a possible return to nuclear power in Italy?

Nuclear energy production is a fundamental tool to save our planet. The crisis that has traversed and still traverses the nuclear industry stems partly from opposition movements that mainly feed on ideological arguments rather than technical-economic ones. A totally irrational approach thus opposes scientific arguments. Evidently, the former has an easier hold on most people, especially those who have not received technical-scientific training, and uses modern mass communication means with enormous "penetration power" compared to traditional media, which, due to the nature of the underlying algorithms, tend to favour users' access to content with which they mostly agree. The result is that one ends up believing more and more in what one already believes, simply because the opposing thought is rarely explored. Of course, this is not the only aspect: the powerful oil industry has an interest in maintaining this state of affairs and has ample means—financial and of pressure—to do so. In this context, it is very difficult to imagine a plausible change in strategy in Italy that happens through a referendum. On the other hand, it is very likely that the referendum route would lead to the abandonment of nuclear power in any country in the world, despite the fact that it is recognized as an effective weapon for an energy policy against the greenhouse effect. I therefore think that only courageous political choices, made by stable governments capable of building a consensus that goes beyond their political color, at least on specific issues like energy supply, can lead to a significant strategic reorientation in energy matters. Italy is no exception, and therefore nuclear power can be relaunched only with a government of this kind.

3. Flavio, you are not just an engineer, you also have a literary talent. How did this inclination come about, and how did you pursue it to the point of publishing “Frugando nel passato” (Delving into the past)?

I have always tried to use writing as a personal psychotherapeutic tool (smile). Whenever I am overwhelmed by strong emotions, I write a short story and reread it years later. It is a way to store my moods, to keep them in a format accessible to memory. Most of these stories are descriptions of moods; the facts told are the pretext and, although not necessarily happened, are plausible. Once retired, since I had time and already written material, I decided to collect the various stories, creating a connecting thread that united them and trying to explore, so to speak, literarily, some mechanisms of the brain. In particular, I wanted to explore memory aspects that have always fascinated me. Putting this book together, in Italian and French, then publishing it, was a wonderful experience that I recommend to everyone.

4. Flavio, can you tell us more about the origins of the “Italian lunch” in Cadarache, an example of an inclusive Italian community open to Italian-French integration?

My "integration" into French society was almost immediate and, in any case, without any difficulty, but I have always tried to maintain a strong bond with Italy, cultivating what I consider its most important component: its culture, in the broadest sense of the term. Together with other Italians who shared this cultural need, we gradually brought together an Italian community in Cadarache, primarily to create opportunities to speak Italian but also to stay updated on Italian current events. Over time, these meetings took the form of lunches held in a festive atmosphere, where information about Italy was exchanged, and discussions about Italian culture took place. The Italian tables in the Cadarache canteen did not go unnoticed either for their sound level or for the good humour and cheerfulness that transpired. Over time, several French friends expressed their interest and often a kind of passion for the Italian language and culture and began to participate in these exchanges, making them evidently even more interesting. The success of these "meetings" then prompted me to organize an annual party in my garden, which allowed us to also gather our families, giving an even broader and more intense dimension to our meetings. Apart from a forced break due to the COVID epidemic, I continue to organize these parties, which bring me great joy.